The State of IT Careers and the Role of AI with Forrest Brazeal

Landon Miles: All right. Welcome to the Hands-On IT podcast, where we look into the latest trends and insights in IT technology. As always, I'm your host Landon Miles. Now we're releasing this episode directly after the first ever Autonomous IT Live Show. And thank you so much to everyone who attended. And if you missed it live, you can still check it out. We'll have the link in the description below. So today we have a special guest with us, Forrest Brazeal, who kicked off our inaugural live show by talking about the state of IT careers and we get to dig a little deeper into that with him today. So thanks for being here, Forrest, and welcome to the show.

Forrest: Hey, thanks, Landon, and it's wonderful to be here.

Landon Miles: Alright, so we're coming at you directly after the live show, which was three ways to make your path to director of IT less scary. So for those of you who attended, this will be a recap, but we have a lot of listeners who are meeting you for the first time for us. Would you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself?

Forrest: Sure thing. So my name is Forrest Brazeal. I've kind of, I don't know, I've done a lot of the things you can do in IT. I started my career out as a SQL server DBA inside of a large enterprise. I did time as a DevOps engineer. I've managed storage clusters and I've been a front end and back end web developer. Then I sort of migrated to being a cloud architect, no pun intended, helping a lot of organizations figure out how to get the most out of the cloud. But recently I left Google, which is where I was until the beginning of this year and started my own company, co-founded my own company called Freeman and Forest alongside Emily Freeman, who's an amazing, long-time beacon in the DevOps space. And we do influencer marketing for tech companies and we get to talk to even more folks who are growing their careers that way.

Landon Miles: Very cool. Thanks for the intro. And now before we dive a little bit deeper, we're to highlight some of the topics that you covered today. So you talked about upscaling in today's competitive market and addressed kind of three major stressors within the IT job environment. So the macroeconomic climate, return to office challenges and the rise of AI. So your perspective of when everyone is senior, no one is really resonated with me. Can you give a little bit more context there and let our listeners in on what, what you mean, what you're, what your point was on that.

Forrest: Of course. Well, I mean, if you're calling yourself senior, that title only has meaning in the context of there are also juniors, right? Otherwise, you know, we're all just sort of these undifferentiated members of the technical staff. And the point I was trying to make was as a senior engineer, you have to be able to accomplish things without someone sort of standing over your shoulder and making sure you're doing the right thing, except for potentially an AI assistant, because we're seeing more and more that these AI assistants

Landon Miles: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Forrest: help seniors a lot more than they do juniors, right? Because you need that human expertise to kind of come alongside. But a junior employee, someone who's starting out their career, is going to need human assistance alongside them. That's not something new. That's not something that's changed. It's not something that AI is changing. This is how we grow the next generation of talent. And we have to invest in that if we're going to be successful in the future.

Landon Miles: Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks so much for that clarification. I think that will really resonate with our audience here too. So next question. Do you see any common misconceptions or mistakes that people make within their IT job shirts or during the interview process?

Forrest: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things is just assuming that the past predicts the future. And this is so hard because we all know how much the field changes, but you get head down in a job for four or five, six years, and then you come up for error and it feels like, you know, well, I mean, all of my skills are still relatively relevant. I should be able to go out there and find another role doing more or less, you know, what I'm doing today, even if the

Landon Miles: Yeah.

Forrest: window dressing around it has changed a bit. But I think what a lot of folks find when they get back on the job market is it's not so much that individual skills they have aren't relevant as it is their entire field has changed beyond recognition, right? I mean, I remember, you know, 10 years ago, you know, I was doing deployments for bare metal SQL servers.

And yes, there's still companies that do that today, but the field has completely moved on. Databases are managed in a way they weren't 10 years ago. And if they're not being managed, they're in these very bespoke environments where you need to have a lot of really domain-specific expertise to be successful there. And so I can't just walk around and say, yeah, I'm a SQL Server DBA and expect that to unlock doors for me because the budget's not there, the hiring's not there. think a lot of the time what IT folks miss and where they struggle when they get into an interview is they assume that, you know, the market forces should reward them just for showing up and having technical skills. That is not true. You have to be more savvy with how you understand the market itself. there are very specific areas where it teams, it teams are investing. are very specific areas where software engineering managers are willing to purchase tools.

Landon Miles: Mm-hmm.

Forrest: And if your expertise lines up with those, great. You're going to have a lot of job opportunities available to you. If they don't, you're going to have to not even necessarily tweak your skills, you're going have to tweak your self-perception of who you are. So this gets to something very existential about us. And I think that's tough for people when they get back on the job market.

Landon Miles: Yeah, for sure. think it's, I think one of the most valuable skills is just being able to learn quickly and apply that knowledge, especially with an IT where, mean, even things like best practices change every, every few years. And, but yeah, it's just, it's a difficult one out there. think that's some really great advice that you offered. so last year, Onalitika named you as one of the top 50 voices in cloud over the globe.

Forrest: That's right.

Landon Miles: So as someone who has seen a lot of different areas within the IT industry, like you were talking about earlier, what are some of the key skills IT professionals should focus on to stand out in today's job market?

Forrest: Yeah, that's a great question. know, a few years ago, I created something called the Cloud Resume Challenge, which is free for anyone to access. You can find it at cloudresumechallenge.dev. And it's a set of steps that you can go through to kind of hone the skills you need to be effective in this market. And it ends up with you creating a personal website that's hosted on some cloud services. And if you do it the way the spec tells you to, you're going to end up picking up a lot of other skills along the way, from DevOps to source control to CI, CD to working in a couple different programming languages. There will be some networking and some auth that fits in there and a number of other things as well. And what I've seen over the past four years and change as folks who are upskilling, changing careers have dug into that project is that they'll come back to me and they'll say, Hey, the skills that I got the most benefit out of from this project were not that, you know, Hey, I can write some Python now or I've learned some JavaScript now.

I'm not afraid to learn new things anymore, right? That's really the biggest thing that I would focus on is not being afraid to learn new things. It's a mental block more than it is an actual skill deficit, I think in a lot of cases. And you asked, what are skills IT professionals can use that stand out? To me, if you find a hiring manager who understands that being able to learn quickly is more important than holding a specific skill, you're already going to be doing better. But if you're asking about particular technical skills, mean, just really tactically right now, being able to tell a story around, Hey, I know how to work with the cloud. I know how to work with these major orchestration frameworks on top of the cloud, like Kubernetes. And I have some experience using AI effectively, either as a developer tool or actually implementing it as part of my role. Those are the conversations that are going to get you into a lot of doors and that's going to change two years from now. That's just what it is snapshot right at this moment. Right.

Landon Miles: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think that's great advice and yeah, the learning quickly and utilizing AI. That's, mean, there's been a lot of scare around AI, especially within the job market. And I mean, I think a lot of that is, is misplaced. mean, it's, the, just is a new opportunity for solving more problems. think. Yeah.

The listeners may not know that you're also the founder of Good Tech Things, which is a fun cartoon or comics on technical topics. Be sure to check it out. how can IT professionals leverage creativity and unconventional methods to make a lasting impression in their careers?

Forrest: think the most important thing is to do things that bring you joy. Years ago, when I was working at that huge enterprise that I mentioned, I started drawing cartoons in my spare time with a Sharpie marker on pieces of copy paper just because I needed something to sort of be a stress release from what I was dealing with day to day. And I would scan them in on the office printer, and I'd post them on the internet. And people liked them. And now I've been doing that for many years now. I create music.

You can find on my YouTube channel about different things tech challenges that I'm solving. These are objectively silly things. They're dorky, nerdy things, but they personally bring me joy. And I think that welcomes other people in when you're vulnerable enough to express that about yourself. So I would encourage others. It doesn't have to be cartoons. It doesn't have to be music. You know, it could be, I don't know, hacking on something with a Raspberry Pi to build a machine that can change a light bulb for you, right? Whatever it is that just lights up those neurons and brings you personal satisfaction. Do that and then share it. And the beauty of the internet is you're going to find other people who are drawn to that. It's going to unlock doors that you never would have imagined possible. So I wouldn't do it in this calculated way where you're like, hey, if I am quote unquote creative or unconventional, that that's going to enhance my career in all these ways. Don't think about it that way. Just put yourself out there. Be honest to yourself and take joy in the things that you love doing and that you love doing wellmand you will find doors open that you would never have been able to plan for.

Landon Miles: Yeah, absolutely. One of the questions I always like to ask people when I'm interviewing people for jobs or anywhere is like, what's a project that you're excited about working on? What's something that you're proud that you've done? the best response is their faces will just light up and they're just so excited to talk to you about it. it's like, okay, like, those are the people that I want to work with. I go to work with the people that are excited about what they're doing. So yeah, I like that.

Forrest: Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Landon Miles: So, and then finally, what would you say to the IT professional who's been through the wringer in terms of applications and interviews and still hasn't landed a job?

Forrest: Well, first I would say I hear you and I feel for you that straight up sucks. It's no fun. I, again, I encounter a lot of these folks through the cloud resume challenge who they've done all the things you're told you're supposed to do. You know, they got the certification, they built the side project, they sent out the applications and they've just heard no's or even worse. They've heard crickets, which is even worse than being told. No, it's just to be left indefinitely hanging. Right. So I have tremendous empathy for anyone who's in that situation.

Landon Miles: Yeah, absolutely.

Forrest: The most important thing I would say is, not give up. I promise you there are roles out there that you would be perfect for, but I would also encourage you to stop trying to find those by going through the wringer, if you will, and sort of cold applying to a bunch of places where you don't have an in. I'll be honest with you. I don't think I've gotten a job in probably close to 10 years that wasn't through someone in my personal network, right? Like I haven't cold applied.

Landon Miles: Yeah.

Forrest: in a really long time. This is true for a lot of people who've been in the industry for a while. You work with folks that know you, that trust you, and that you know and trust. That's actually a, there's a back and forth there. There's a give and take. You don't want to apply somewhere that you have no context in and get hired and then end up landing on a team full of toxic people that you can't stand working with and that burn you out really fast, right? That's not good for you either. For everyone, it's so much better if you can kind of pre-vet the company before you're applying with them.

So I would look for ways to get baked into a community, whether that's through an online, you know, discord or Slack channel or something with like-minded professionals, whether it's by attending some conferences, whether it is by continuing to put yourself out there with some content creation and other things that just sort of shines a bat signal that, hey, here's what I care about. Here's what I'm working on. That does work. It does take time, but it takes less time, you know, then sending out a billion applications and wading through all of these miserable interviews where you're just seems like you're just sort of going through the motions only to be rejected. So opt out of that process, focus on, you know, taking the unfair advantage of building connections with people. And you will find that that ends up putting you in a better situation long-term.

Landon Miles: Nice. Yeah, I'm a big fan of dad jokes. And one of my favorite IT related dad jokes is around the job searches as a, as IT professionals, definitely should understand the benefits of networking more than anyone. whether that's a plugging cables in or talking with people, both are important. So, but yeah, well, us, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. Your insights are great. I'm sure our listeners have gained a lot from this conversation and I know I have. So one last question for you is,

Forrest: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly.

Landon Miles: What do I have to do to get a cartoon version of myself in good tech things?

Forrest: Well, that's a great question. You know, I used to draw more cartoons of people, but I'm actually not a very good cartoonist. And so sometimes the pictures would come out looking insulting and I didn't mean them to be that way. It's just that I can't draw. I just can't draw very well. So I think I'll have to say you don't want me to do that, but I am putting new cartoons up at goodtechthings.com all the time. I just put one up this morning. So go check it out.

Landon Miles: I love it. We'll put that link in the description of the podcast also. And so that wraps up today's episode of the Hands-On IT podcast. Be sure to check out Forrest Brazeal's work and his new venture, Good Tech Things, and also Freeman and Forrest, which is freemenandforrest.com. Is that all right? And then stay tuned for more insights and interviews in our upcoming podcast on the Autonomous IT Podcast Network, which released every Tuesday and Thursday. So thank you so much for listening and have a great day.

Forrest: That's right. Thanks, Landon.

Landon Miles: Thanks.